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Posted on Nov 21, 2003 - 10:30 PM by Admin |
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Dick Grayson isn't the only Grayson roaming around the DC Universe. Writer Devin Grayson has been making her mark in Batman's world for awhile now. And since taking over the writing chores of Nightwing, there is a new Dynamic Duo in comics: Devin Grayson and Nightwing! Grayson found the time to sit down and talk with The Comic Fanatic.Com about Nightwing, her upcoming Batman and Superman novels, her time with Ghost Rider and much more! Plus, Grayson brought along her pal Dick Grayson to answer a few questions! Read on as The Fan Man gabs with the dynamic Devin Grayson...and Nightwing!
The Fan Man: Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk to The Comic Fanatic.Com.
Devin Grayson: You’re welcome! Thank you for your interest in my work.
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The Fan Man: You have really made your mark on DC’s Nightwing. How long have you been writing this book now?
Devin Grayson: Oh, my god! Math already!? We just started! Um…let’s see. My first issue was #71, which came out in September 2002 (which means I wrote it some time around spring of 2002).
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The Fan Man: What is that initially drew you to Nightwing?
Devin Grayson: I think it was the idea that he could not only survive, but also thrive with Batman. I mean, make no mistake, I’m cornered in a dark alley, there’s absolutely no one I’d rather see than Batman. But as a primary paternal figure? Batman could not have been an easy guardian to grow up under, and Dick not only took it in stride, he now views his own childhood - complete with the murder of his parents - as one of the luckiest boyhoods anyone could have had. His feelings towards Batman are complex and intense, but at the bottom of it all is this enduring sense of wonder and awe that still shines through - affectionate wonder and awe. That loyalty and unflagging sense of gratitude is really compelling to me, and the minute I became aware of the character, I wanted to know more about him.
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The Fan Man: For those who haven’t picked up an issue of Nightwing lately, fill us in on what’s been going on in Dick Grayson’s life.
Devin Grayson: Okay, when Chuck Dixon left the book, Nightwing was patrolling Blüdhaven at night, but during the day he was also working as an officer in the Blüdhaven Police Department hoping to impact the rampant corruption there. When I started writing the series, I was really taken with this idea of Dick basically running 24/7…he loves being a vigilante, he loves doing detective work (like this essentially deep cover operation at the PD) and - surprise, surprise! - he found he kind of loved being a cop, too. However, no one else in his life (read: Bruce) was terribly thrilled with the idea, and after Dick finally initiated a top-to-bottom corruption clean up in the PD, everyone, including Dick himself, assumed he’d quit. But he didn’t. And a little more time went by and he still didn’t. He just loved it too much. By then, too, the corrupt Chief of Police, Redhorn, had been murdered (still technically an open case in Blüdhaven, but more on that in a minute) and his initial partner and supervisor, Amy, had been promoted to Captain. His new partner in the PD was a young, enthusiastic guy named Gannon Malloy, who really liked Dick’s energy and was a much better breed of cop than what the ‘haven had seen before. In Nightwing #75 we kind of took Dick to a high point, where, aside from being utterly exhausted, everything in his life was pretty damn good. He had Babs and two jobs he loved, he’d accomplished a big piece of what he had set out to accomplish in Blüdhaven, and there was even a new female vigilante - fashioning herself after and calling herself The Tarantula - for him to flirt with, scold, and save on the rooftop express.  Well, how long do you think that lasted? ::grin:: From there, things have gotten worse and worse. The new Tarantula turns out to be a) training under and working for Blockbuster, b) the murderer (albeit under orders) of Redhorn, and c) the sister of the ‘haven’s new District Attorney, who is adamant about keeping her out of jail. Amy’s house gets blown up by the newly indicted “bad” cops, Babs starts getting uncomfortable with the relationship (more on that below), and Dick takes a bullet to the shoulder while protecting Gannon on the job - a wound which, as Nightwing, he re-opens no less than three times. There’s a cracker jack reporter, Maxine Michaels, running around snooping into everything, and Amy, who seems to have figured out Dick’s secret identity (after he’s forced to protect her from Deathstroke 24/7 both as Officer Grayson and as Nightwing) abruptly fires him from the force. The only bright spot is that Yoska (from my run on Gotham Knights), who is sort of like a grandfather to Dick, moves in to Dick’s apartment building.
In the past couple of months, these generalized problems seem to be crystallizing into increasingly personal problems, almost as if someone’s targeting Dick directly…
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The Fan Man: In your opinion, what distinguishes Nightwing from all of the other Bat-books?
Devin Grayson: Well, mostly Nightwing himself. But I guess the most direct answer is that Nightwing is an action comic, and it’s as much about the person behind the mask as the legend of the man in the mask.
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The Fan Man: Are there any characters that you write in Nightwing that hold a special place in your heart, or maybe reflect a little bit of your own character?
Devin Grayson: Um, yeah. Nightwing. :-)
As I mentioned in another interview recently, Dick embodies two qualities that I really admire, loyalty and physicality. The loyalty is something that helps me relate to him emotionally - it’s an attribute that I think is evident in my own life, and I have an inkling as to the kind of joys and trials it can bring. The physicality, on the other hand, is something I can only dream about. Maybe it’s because I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes when I was fifteen or maybe it’s just because I’m lazy, but I’m barely on speaking terms with my own body - my passions have to end up finding some cerebral or creative expression. Dick, though - I mean, my god! He is so completely on the physical plane, so gorgeously corporeal. Maybe this is a manifestation of latent self-hate, but I kind of think that’s a better way to be in this world…”better” meaning more appropriate, more encompassing. We are physical creatures, after all, in a physical environment, and I think Dick is someone who lives and interacts with that to the fullest. I like to joke of him that he hardly knows the difference between a kick and a kiss - as long as there’s a chance for movement and contact and body heat, he’s happy, he’s on. I love having him in my life as a conduit to experience and play with that way of moving through the world. I admire the hell out of it, and on many levels, he’s as close to it as I can get.
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The Fan Man: After recent issues of Nightwing, it seems that Dick Grayson’s relationship with Barbara Gordon is in trouble. Are Dick and Babs heading for splitsville?
Devin Grayson: Well, here’s the thing. Dick and Babs live in a serialized drama. Happily ever afters are few and far between. Very little (including breakups) are truly permanent - the whole thing is a journey, an ever-changing arrangement of pieces. They are in for some challenges up ahead, yes. But one of the things I’ve really wanted to try to include in my work is realistic, complicated, messy relationships. I don’t know about you, but in my experience, most break-ups take three or four practice break-ups to really stick - you’re out the door and then, dammit, I need you, I really can’t stand this… wait, forget I said that! I’m outta here!… No, wait, honey, I’m sorry, let’s give this another chance...I gave you another chance, and now look! I’ve really got to leave, it’s not you, it’s me… wait, you do? You never said that to me before. Okay, that changes things, let’s hang in there, I know we can make this work!…no this is wrong, this isn’t right for either of us, I’m really leaving this time, I mean it!… oh, my god! I love you, too! (that isn’t a dialog, by the way, that’s all one person trying to figure out his or her feelings).
In most of the comics I’ve read, boys and girls are either in devoted, uncompromising love for ever and ever, they never explore a physical relationship and so are always only friends, or they try an intimate relationship, it doesn’t work out, and then they hate (or, in superhero comics, frequently attempt to arrest and/or kill) each other. There’s a much wider range than that, and that range is part of what I want to explore.
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The Fan Man: What has led to this tension between Dick and Barbara?
Devin Grayson: Hopefully, it’s evident in the book. But essentially, Barbara, who really does love Dick, which makes a serious evaluation of the relationship necessary, is concerned that Dick’s feelings for her stem as much if not more from his memories of her in the past as from their actual current relationship. On one level, that makes her feel bad and unappreciated for who she is now, but on an even deeper level, she’s worried that Dick’s using his relationship with her as some sort of anchor that tethers him to the past. She doesn’t want to be a force of stagnation in his life (nor have him be one in hers) - so in a sense she’s wondering if she doesn’t need to set him free to let him continuing growing and coming more fully into the present. 
He is also extremely extroverted, and she is more introverted, and I’m using the Myers-Briggs definition of those terms here - it’s not that an extrovert likes being with people and an introvert doesn’t, it’s that extroverts get energy from being with people, and introverts can only replenish their internal energy supplies when they’re alone. It can be really, brutally exhausting for an introvert to be with an extrovert, though that is also often a key to a successful partnership, since it’s nice in couples to have one person ready and able to deal with the outside world and external affairs while the other attends to the interior mood and health of the relationship. It’s definitely a challenge, though, and if you’re more of an extrovert I think that being in a relationship with Dick would be endless stimulating, but if you’re an introvert (like Bruce, for example), my god, he can wear you thin! Dick is just a frickin’ bundle of energy at all times - in constant motion until he’s literally unconscious. He always wants to be engaged, preferably on an emotional and physical level, and god help you if you’ve been looking forward to a quiet evening at home.
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The Fan Man: Any chance that Dick and Babs could mend their fences and we have a Bat-wedding somewhere down the line?
Devin Grayson: There’s always a chance!
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The Fan Man: Barbara Gordon plays a pretty large role in Nightwing’s series. Do you have to collaborate your efforts involving Babs with current Birds of Prey writer Gail Simone?
Devin Grayson: I don’t have to, but Gail is so much fun to talk to that I’ll use pretty much any excuse to shoot her an email. When she came on to BoP, she actually contacted me to ask what I had planned for Dick and Babs which is, frankly, unusual and very considerate. I hate to make broad generalizations based on gender (broad, get it? Get it? Nevermind…), but communicating with her reminds me why I can’t wait until there are more women writing mainstream superhero books - we’re both completely supportive of one another’s efforts and a request that, with a male colleague, would usually get me a response like “well, I dunno, this is what I had planned!” from her to me or vice versa gets “oh, no problem, sweetie! Do you want me to move that back even further?” ::Laughs:: I’ll credit that to her personality as much as to her gender, though - aside from the normal female socialization that we both share, she’s just wicked nice and incredibly sharp, and very mature and wise and lovely to deal with.
Writer to writer collaboration, though, happens far less than most readers seem to suspect. I discussed this recently in an interview, but my belief is that all stories happen once upon a time, and they’re all inviolable within their own context. In comics, we spend a lot of time worrying about “character continuity” - take Nightwing, for example; he’s doing one thing in his own series, something else in Batman or Gotham Knights, and something altogether different in Outsiders or Titans in any given month. Hell, maybe he’s even in Birds of Prey, as you mentioned, or stopping by Flash for a visit. And say you really like Nightwing and you have all the stories he’s ever been in - even as Robin, even as the Target -- and you’re still collecting. You decide to revisit some great Dick Grayson memories so you pull out some old comics. Now let me ask you this: do you pull out your June 1999 DC comics and read them through with July 1999 on standby? No! You pull out a series, a run, a story. You grab a fistful of Chuck’s Nightwings or a nice, fat archive of really old Batman comics. I am still totally knocked out every time I read Wolfman/Perez Titans issues and they have almost nothing to do with the direction in which my editor and I are currently taking the Nightwing series and that’s absolutely cool.
These characters are legends, we’re telling stories about their adventures…it’s all timeless. People don’t read about sixty-year-old characters perpetually in their twenties or thirties in chronological real time. You can’t. That’s not what stories are. Unless there’s a sociological or political need to ground a comic book story in a specific timeframe, they’re all written with the hopes that the action is immediate and accessible and “now” and able to completely grab you every time you pick up the book. Because of the episodic nature of serialized drama, obviously within certain series and certain runs there are story arcs and building plot points and it’s highly beneficial, sometimes even necessary, to read prior issues, but those are still within the context of a singular story. Writers are at their best when they’re telling their own stories. Let them. Don’t hold them accountable for somebody else’s work. That’s a stupid way to read; it diminishes both the creators and the characters. Fiction is not about reality, it’s about truth. One of the differences between the two is that reality is bound by time. Truth is not. When you pick up a fictional story you are agreeing to enter into a wholly fabricated and self-contained universe for the duration of that tale. If it’s well done, that universe will resonate with your own. But it is the reader’s responsibility to honor the transport between his or her world and the world of the characters. If you can’t do that, then you can’t really read and you’re missing out on some wondrous adventures.
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The Fan Man: Since Nightwing has become one of the leaders of the new Outsiders, does writer Judd Winick have to confer with you when it comes to handling Nightwing?
Devin Grayson: No, he doesn’t. His editor probably has to check in with mine, but as my editor is fond of saying “just consider that a different show on a different channel.” I have no problem at all with the idea that Nightwing is doing all of this stuff - it kind of plays into that theme of workaholicism I’ve been playing with in his eponymous series - but I do understand that it would be incredibly difficult, and even limiting to the readers and to the character, to try to strictly coordinate all of that. Let it be, enjoy. Let him worry about how he fits it all in. ::Laughs::
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The Fan Man: As if Dick doesn’t have enough trouble with just his love life, there’s always a villain waiting around the corner in Bludhaven. Batman has the Joker. Do you consider Blockbuster to be Nightwing’s Joker?
Devin Grayson: Not in the same inverted-mirror-of-one’s-psyche sense, but yes, certainly, Blockbuster is Nightwing’s current nemesis.
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The Fan Man: From what I have heard, Blockbuster is set to make Nightwing’s life miserable over the next few months.
Devin Grayson: You’ve heard right!
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The Fan Man: January’s Nightwing #89 promises to be “the single most shocking issue of the year” and promises to feature a “turning point” in Dick Grayson’s life. Is Blockbuster involved in this event? Any hints as to what we can expect?
Devin Grayson: Blockbuster is involved, yes. And I know we promise shocking turning points all the time, but this time we’re pretty serious. And 89 is just the beginning - the fall out from that will carry us all the way to issue 93, which is, in my opinion, twice as shocking. I think as we lead up to 93, readers will get a sense of just how serious we are. Even if you can’t normally afford Nightwing, I really hope people follow the 89-93 arc. Blockbuster really stops messing around, and so Nightwing is forced to escalate his response way beyond what he’s used to. I can’t say more without giving too much of it away, but I will add that this has been building up for a year, and all the major players - old and new - play a part. Keep an eye on Dick’s emotional state, keep an eye on Blockbuster’s M.O., and keep an eye on Tarantula. And don’t blink!
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The Fan Man: What are some of the other events we can expect in Nightwing’s future?
Devin Grayson: Um…normally I’d be perfectly happy to tease you with something, but right night, due to the event we’ve been discussing above, I really can’t say anything. Things are really, really, really gonna change. By issue 100, his life’s gonna look really different. Maybe you can get a sense of how serious we are by how far ahead we’re thinking.
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The Fan Man: The Joker is insane, so he never had to have a reason. Why does Blockbuster have it out for Nightwing?
Devin Grayson: Again, there is a reason, but I can’t tell you what it is without giving away a major story beat. I will say that as of this interview (issue 87 just came out), you don’t yet know.
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The Fan Man: Who are some of the other villains who are members of Nightwing’s rogues gallery?
Devin Grayson: Chuck actually set him up with a really cool sand box. There’s Lady Vic, Brutale, Mouse and Giz, Stallion, Double Dare, the Trigger Twins, and, especially, Shrike - all of whom have been known to work for Blockbuster - and then from his Titans days there are a few people he can’t seem to shake, like Deathstroke, for example, and then, of course, the whole Gotham Gallery is wary of him, too.
He’s friends with almost all the good guys in the DCU, and a personal enemy of a very large handful of the bad guys.
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The Fan Man: Any Batman villains that you would like to claim as Nightwing’s own?
Devin Grayson: Not to the point of taking them away from Batman, but I think it’s clear that Dick has his own personal vendettas against, for example, Two-Face and Joker. And god help Tony Zucco if he ever gets out of jail.
The math will give you a headache (he was eight in 1939 but he’s twenty-seven or so now), but anyway you slice it, Dick’s been around punching people in the face for a long time! I don’t think he feels any less concerned with the Gotham baddies, just maybe less personally responsible. Blüdhaven is only thirty miles south of Gotham, though, so any villain dumb enough to make the trip gets on Dick’s sh*tlist pretty quick.
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The Fan Man: Tell us a little about the new character Tarantula. Heroine, vigilante or villain?
Devin Grayson: Exactly. ;-)
That is to say, she’s definitely a vigilante, and she thinks of herself as someone doing good in the world, but her sense of morality has been developed by her circumstances, and like most people who aren’t superheroes, she sees a world full of violence, gray areas, and national defense spending. You and I are pretty privileged people in this world. In addition to many material advantages, I'm going to make the assumption that we were both afforded above-average educational opportunities and lives that allowed for moral reflection and philosophical debate. On top of that, we consciously think about superheroes every day, wading into the great, albeit allegorical, tide of good versus evil.
This is not true of most of the world.
For most people, life is still about meeting basic survival needs. Though they may be anchored to some sort of religious doctrine, the truth is -- and we know this well -- that religion is often misused to excuse and even incite terrible violence and intolerance. Almost beside the point, the real point being that someone like Catalina lives in a world where the simple assertion that murder is morally irredeemable is completely unsubstantiated. Cops and soldiers get paid to kill, and they're national heroes. Our government instigates mass murder as a means towards peace on a daily basis. In many homes, it's a matter of pride to assert how quickly you'd kill any b*stard who tried to mess with your family, and on the streets, the deaths attached to your name can be a mark of honor.
Catalina lives in a Capitalist society that thrives on consumption and competition. She works at a job that puts her face to face with the normally faceless victims of white collar crime - to her, for example, the Enron scandal isn't something she clicks her tongue over while reading about it the paper. She knows the people who had their kids in good schools and were in their first-ever houses only to suddenly have to move back to the barrio, sending their kids through metal detectors every morning and living off of Ramen for the next few years. The idea that you can't be a hero if you succumb to killing a bad guy is very theoretical and cerebral. Catalina's world is neither of those things. Instead of starting from the assumption that everyone understands why killing is wrong, I want to use Catalina to really look at the world we live in as it is and as it appears to someone struggling in it, and watch her learn the morality that in fact is not the least bit evident in her life. I want her to be able to take the high principals and make them work in her world, not just give her privileges and insights that elevate her out of it. That is, instead of handing the moral code down from on high, I want to see if we can make it visible to her down where she is. I want her to repent for killing people not because Nightwing says she should or because "everyone knows killing is wrong" (how would they know that living in THIS world!?) but because she sees, in action -- through her own actions -- what happens when you use violence to fight violence, and what happens when, instead, you commit yourself to a moral high ground. I want it to be an active choice, rather than a resigned assumption.
That’s is a big part of what I want to explore with Catalina. Not the Azrael story, which was basically "so, you think you want your heroes to kill, do you?" but rather the opportunity to put forth the question, how does someone come to understand true morality and choose it in what is not, really, a moral world?
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The Fan Man: Any big Bat-event planned for 2004 that Nightwing might be a part of?
Devin Grayson: If there was an event planned, Nightwing would be part of it.
Wasn’t that a politic response? Damn, maybe I should have run for Governor of California.
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The Fan Man: Let’s play a little Bat-word association with Dick Grayson. From Nightwing’s point of view how do you view these characters:
The Fan Man: Batman?
Dick Grayson: Hero, savior, shadow - the most dangerous person I know and the only person with whom I feel completely safe. Gratitude, awe, frustration, disenchantment, re-enchantment, larger-than-life, kinder than most people think… a man I would die for without hesitation, an icon, a person I love, the immovable object to my irresistible force. He’s the closest thing I have to a father, and the closest thing I have to a god. He created me, who I am now, who I am really, and I’ll never forget or be able to repay that. He’s totally impossible to deal with and yet my life makes absolutely no sense without him.
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The Fan Man: Robin?
Dick Grayson: By which I’ll assume you mean Tim (though the moniker “Robin” certainly has more connotations than that in my life!): Little brother, innocence, youth, dynamo, laughter, friend, family…that wonderful little furrow he gets between his eyebrows when he’s thinking (and he’s ALWAYS thinking!)…strong but not invulnerable, irreplaceable, deeply sane, deeply sweet…the two things that really come to mind when I think about Timmy are enjoying his company and destroying anyone who tries to hurt him. The idea of harm coming to him is totally unacceptable to me. I know he can take care of himself, but I also know that at some level I hold myself responsible for his ultimate well-being.
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The Fan Man: Barbara Gordon?
Dick Grayson: ::rueful smile:: Oh, um…man…genius, competence, strength (of character, of personality, of conviction)…the warmth of her neck…the wonderful possessiveness of her embrace, that hair, like flames, like silk, smells like sunshine, even when it’s raining outside…graceful, serious, moral, wise…the sound of her fingers flying over a keyboard, the sound of her laugh, which is always a little bit surprised, as if she didn’t expect to ever laugh again, every time…constant, reliable, solemn, sad, brave, whip-smart, beautiful…the ache that spreads through my chest….
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The Fan Man: Huntress?
Dick Grayson: You’re intent on getting me in trouble, aren’t you? Well…here goes nothing. Sensual, fierce, cornered, Catholic, passionate…broken furniture, black pearls, the flash of her eyes in the dark.…blood, spices, candle light, vanilla, musk, satin, the searing heat of… touching, grasping, danger, aloofness, skin, reckless, insatiable, frightened, vulnerable, lethal…and attempt to protect, a rejection, a sore spot, a warm spot, Richard @#$*& Dragon, a laugh, her wheels peeling out, the way my nickname for her felt on my tongue and the way hers for me still sometimes rings in my ears.
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The Fan Man: Catwoman?
Dick Grayson: ::laughs:: The phrase that comes most readily to mind is “you can look, but DON’T TOUCH!” That’s Dad’s girl - you do NOT hit that! ::continued laughter:: Ah, but what can you say about Selina? She’s, you know, slinky. Captivating. Highly dangerous. Broken. Unbreakable. Faithful and unpredictable. Playful. She’s all woman , that one - knows how to be strong without surrendering an ounce of femininity. Basically, I like her. I mean, yeah, she’s a law-breaker, and a wild card. But I believe that ultimately her heart is in the right place and she’s the only person I know who can render Batman speechless, which I appreciate immensely.
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The Fan Man: Alfred?
Dick Grayson: Mom! ;-) Cool hands, warm heart, gentle, steadfast, reliable, soothing, calm, sensible, trust-worthy. He’s attached to so many memories for me. When I think of him I think of the kitchen, and lemon oil, bleach, chess, King Lear, and Tosca. Galoshes, umbrellas, perfectly folded handkerchiefs, hot chocolate, winks, devotion, affection, extra blankets, band aids, silver polish, Bay Rum, fresh squeezed orange juice, gentle reprimands…for years his was the last voice I heard before falling asleep and the first I’d hear upon awakening. He was such a constant in my later childhood, graceful and warm and accepting. He still feels like home to me. I started sending him Mother’s Day cards when I was younger, I guess to sort of try to force him and Bruce into some kind of picture of a family, which was the only social structure I knew at the time, but then I just kind of never stopped, because it seemed right to find a little way to honor him that only he would understand. So I still do it. And I call him every Sunday night, too. He gives great advice!
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The Fan Man: The Spoiler?
Dick Grayson: Impetuous, youthful, full-of-life, sweet, vibrant, funny, tough. It’s crazy the way the whole thing started as this one-man war - it was all Batman, you know, and he was the original loner. And then he took me on and I guess it kind of snowballed from there until now there are all these people adding themselves to our family of their own volition… and it kind of works. I never would have thought of brining someone like Stephanie into the pack, but I’m glad she’s here. She’s a remarkable young woman and representative of a whole different way of heroing - almost the opposite of what Batman started out doing, Spoiler comes to this out of reverence and awe and maybe even love. She’s not avenging a death so much as asserting a way of being in the world - redefining her own destiny. I think that’s really special and really important and as far as I’m concerned, she’s welcomed to stay. Not my call though, of course.
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The Fan Man: The Joker?
Dick Grayson: Okay, this has officially stopped being fun. What can you say about this guy, what can anybody say? Maniacal, homicidal, untamable, unreachable…just thinking about him makes me tense, my jaw sets, I feel the energy that comes off of him like jagged waves, disorienting and poisoned and harsh. He’s hateful, and there’s nothing funny or sympathetic about him. I don’t understand people who think he’s “cool.” They’ve never stood in front of him. He’s sick, demented, sickening. He’s waxy, he smells wrong, his breath is chemical and dirty, his eyes see through people and things, nothing’s real to him, nothing’s sacred. I don’t think he’s capable of redemption - I know he’s not - but again, that’s not my call to make. At best, at absolute best, he’s a victim of some disease too terrible to endure or be endured.
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The Fan Man: Two Face?
Dick Grayson: That’s...harder, that’s personal. Unlike with Joker, there obviously was a real person there once, a good person, according to Bruce, who I know to be an excellent judge of character. He managed to get under my skin though and became something of a personal demon for quite a while in my life, and that’s hard to shake off, that stays with you. He’s…frightening. I mean, Joker is so obviously a monster on so many levels, but with Two-Face, you can always see the potential for redemption, it’s right there on his face, side by side with the damage, the evil. And I do think he’s evil now. He’s crossed too many lines, he’s too far gone to be otherwise. Both he and Joker are in my nightmares sometimes, they have that kind of power. In some ways, I was less afraid of both of them as a kid, because I didn’t understand what they represented. I didn’t understand how many people feel they can identify with aspects of their natures, and that makes them, and their impact on the world, utterly terrifying.
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The Fan Man: Getting back to Devin, before I truly anger Nightwing and get my butt handed to me...Devin, you recently had another Bat-universe project released. What was it like working with artist John Bolton on Batman/Joker: Switch?
Devin Grayson: I love working with John. He takes me to places I wouldn’t go on my own. I tried to explain once in another interview that I don’t think he and I are actually turned on by the same things, but when something gets our attention, we’re both fascinated with the same kind of components. So when we work together, we’ll point each other in strange directions, but once we both get there, we’re in total accordance about how to break down the map and what kind of sight seeing we want to do in the area. ::laughs:: That’s the best way I can explain it. And the result is that I love going on these journeys with him.
Switch was really his baby, based off of an idea he had, and I have felt so grateful to him ever since USER for helping me bring that story to life that it was an honor to be able to return the favor to some extent and help him actualize this amazing vision he’d had.
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The Fan Man: How did it feel writing the villain instead of the hero for a change?
Devin Grayson: Well, no one thinks of himself or herself as the villain, right? Once you’re in someone’s head, there’s very little difference. I’ve written characters that come from a lot of different backgrounds now - I don’t know what you want to call Catwoman, but “hero” isn’t quite the right word, and the same goes for Ghost Rider, who’s probably a pretty classic anti-hero. Actually, of everyone I’ve written so far, I think Black Widow may have been the most conscious of her own moral ambiguity (and that’s because she blames other people for it at some level). 
Being in Joker’s head was scary for a lot of other reasons, but not because of any self-identification as “villain.’
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The Fan Man: In my opinion, Switch was the best Joker tale since the classic The Killing Joke. How did you manage to get inside the Joker’s evil, twisted mind so well?
Devin Grayson: Wow, thanks. I love the way it turned out, but I wouldn’t have gone near it if I felt like we were supposed to try to top The Killing Joke, which still remains one of the best stories ever, period. That’s like trying to write a play that’s better than Hamlet - you’re going to fail, but that bar is so high that you can fail dramatically and still write something pretty cool.
As for getting in Joker’s head, the first thing I did was research Schizophrenia. My mom is a clinical therapist, and she was able to help me get access to some files of Schizophrenics talking about themselves, or just writing letters. A lot of it was surprisingly repetitive and boring, but some of it was kind of amazing. There were ways these people would construct sentences that really stood out to me as being unique and worthy of attention.
Another resource I found that I can share with you, though, was an online article that includes a demonstration of a slide show a drug company made with the help of schizophrenic patients to help show other people what the experience of being schizophrenic is like. Check out this link, turn up the volume on your PC, and play the multi-media slide show :
NPR.org
Keep in mind that you’re just seeing and hearing highlights. Imagine living that, in full speed, 24/7.
After all that, though, I abandoned that line of thinking and just tried to open myself up to my own insanity (which, obviously, is plentiful ::laughs::) and to the idea of chaos as a guiding force. I don’t actually think that Joker is schizophrenic - his condition is much more complex and sociopathic than that, but that was a good place to start, at least in terms of looking for language.
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The Fan Man: Any chance that we could see a sequel to Switch?
Devin Grayson: Yes! A good chance. John already knows where he wants to go next.
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The Fan Man: Before writing Nightwing and Switch, you had the opportunity to show off your skills in some other Bat-books. What were some of the books that you wrote?
Devin Grayson: Catwoman was my first regular monthly for DC, and then Denny O’Neil encouraged me to develop Batman: Gotham Knights, which I was on until they made me choose between that and Nightwing. I’ve also written several Nightwing annuals and miniseries, and participated in every Bat-event since Cataclysm, including No Man’s Land, Officer Down, and Murderer/ Fugitive.
You can see a complete list of my published work on my website in the “Comic Checklist” section at: Devin Grayson.com.
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The Fan Man: A lot of folks may not realize this yet, but you’ve recently padded your Bat-resume with a novel. What can you tell us about Batman: Rise Of Sin Tzu?
Devin Grayson: That it’s on sale now at Amazon.com and at a bookstore near you! ::grins:: Batman: Rise of Sin Tzu is based on a video game written by Flint Dille, who is also responsible for the main plot of the book and a few chapters within it, as well. I was brought in late (as in “you can do this in one month, right? Four other people have already turned us down…”) and essentially took his game script and talked with him and editor Dana Kurtin about how to best turn that into a novel. My most helpful suggestion, according to me, was to do all of the chapters in first person from a different character’s perspective - I think that gives the reader a unique opportunity to get inside the heads of some of these well-loved characters (including Nightwing, of course, and Robin and Barbara Gordon Batgirl, too). It also adds something to the novel that you can’t get through the game. Since Flint had invented the new baddie, Sin Tzu himself, I asked him to write the chapters, including the prologue, that were in Sin Tzu’s voice, and I pretty much wrote the rest of them.
It’s easy to feel a little sheepish about it - I mean, a book based off of a video game…one would be quite forgiven for asking “why!?” - but on the other hand, I do think there’s some surprisingly good material in it, and it will probably be a pleasure for Bat-fans to read, especially those familiar with the Animated Series continuity, upon which this is based. Um, and I promise that my sentences in the book are better than that last one!
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The Fan Man: From the person who has written the novelization, tell me the truth. Is this one of those rare superhero videogames that won’t stink?!
Devin Grayson: In all honesty, I don’t know. I’ve read the script, but we had to start before the game was finished, so I’ve never actually had the opportunity to play the game. I’ll get back to you on that one, though, and word from E3 is that it went over quite well.
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The Fan Man: Aren’t you getting a chance to play in Superman’s yard in 2004 with another novel?
Devin Grayson: Yes! And that will actually be out fairly soon, too, I think. March, I believe… After my BRILLIANT work on the Sin Tzu novel, the DC Licensed Publishing department decided to see what I could do with two whole months, and a plot of my own. Thus was born City, which will be the eighth novel in the Smallville adult novel series (and, by the way, you can imagine how bummed I was to find out that “adult series” merely means, “as opposed to the teen series line,” not “the XXX series,” as I was hoping. I did, however, manage to squeeze in a scene with Lex and Clark sharing a hot tub).
City was so much fun to write, and I really hope people enjoy it. I’ve put off my house-warming party for a year and half now so that I can have a book party instead when it at last comes out.
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The Fan Man: Any other Devin Grayson novels in the works?
Devin Grayson: I’m pretty sure I’ll do at least one more Smallville book, and I’d love to do a Bat-novelization some day based off of one of the stunts or something else I’ve previously contributed to. There’s nothing definite at the moment, though.
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The Fan Man: Getting back to comics, any other non-Bat-related projects on the horizon?
Devin Grayson: Let’s see. Maybe not, actually ::laughs::. All Bats, all the time. Well, no, there’s Matador, which Brian Stelfreeze has finally started drawing over at Wildstorm…I’m not sure if that’s scheduled yet, but it isn’t about Batman or even superheroes of any kind. And there’s a Vertigo proposal I’m toying with, but I haven’t turned it in yet. I’m pretty Gotham-centric, really. I came into comics precisely to work with these characters, so I’m really happy being able to do just that.
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The Fan Man: Have you always wanted to be a writer or is this something that you discovered later in life?
Devin Grayson: I’ve always written, even as a very little girl, but it was so much a part of daily life for me (just journal keeping, and writing poems and short stories to amuse myself with) that it didn’t really occur to me as a vocation until college. From about nine-years-old on, I wanted passionately to be an actor. I grew up in the Bay Area and had a lot of amazing opportunities to study drama, and I was very serious about it. But by the end of high school I was realizing two things. One was that as much as I loved “theater people,” I didn’t always love being one. There was a very competitive, almost necessarily narcissistic piece of it that didn’t sit well with introverted, non-confrontational me. The other was that having learned to be in relationship with fictional characters through theater, I found that I wanted to go farther, and the only people who get to spend more time with fictional characters than actors are writers. When I was applying to college, I discovered that Mona Simpson, one of my favorite fiction authors, was teaching creative writing at Bard College, and that kind of cinched it. I view the whole journey as a natural progression - if you poke around a little, you’ll discover that lots of writers also have backgrounds in theater. It’s actually one of the best pieces of advice I can give to an aspiring writer - take theater classes. It’s the best education you’ll ever get in characterization, scene beats and guiding motivations.
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The Fan Man: I swear I’m not trying to make you feel old here, but it seems like I have heard Devin Grayson’s name for a long time in the comic book industry. Exactly when did you first break into the biz? What was you first published work?
Devin Grayson: Oh, geez, I don’t feel old. I’m still a baby in this industry, you should see some of these guys. ::laughs:: Let’s see, my first published work was Batman Plus Arsenal, which I believe came out in 1997. I had actually written the ten-page “Like Riding a Bike” for The Batman Chronicles first, but for some reason the Batman Plus beat it to the stands. So in an industry full of guys who have been doing this for over twenty years, I am now entering my sixth year of service.
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The Fan Man: Where did you go from there?
Devin Grayson: I think I did a Nightwing Annual after that, and then a Catwoman Annual (or maybe it was the other way around). In any event, I was living in Oakland, California, and I had a day job, so every morning around seven I’d call New York and talk to Darren Vincenzo or Scott Peterson, and they sort of fed me this steady stream of one-shot assignments. I didn’t know enough about the industry to be pitching, they - along with Jordan Gorfinkel and Denny O’Neil - really were grooming me. I was thrilled beyond measure, and yet still had no idea how lucky I truly was. I think they must have had a list of projects they thought I could handle, but they told me about them one at a time, so I never felt overwhelmed, and I was always excited and in the dark about what would come next. By the time I was doing the Nightwing/Huntress four-part miniseries I could barely concentrate on my day job, and around then I somehow made it to New York for a visit, which is when I met everyone for the first time. That’s also when Denny offered me the Catwoman monthly, and I think I quit the day job within a week of that, which was technically ill advised, but it all worked out splendidly.
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The Fan Man: Were you a Comic Fanatic as a kid or is that something that you discovered later?
Devin Grayson: No, as I mentioned earlier, this all came out of left field for me. I’d never read a comic in my life. I didn’t even really know about them, they just weren’t part of my upbringing. Whenever Batman: The Animated Series started - that was what hooked me, and I started watching that compulsively, along with my girlfriend at the time, who was equally into it and very encouraging about me learning more about it. Eventually I realized I had a friend who was working in a comic book store almost walking distance from my apartment in San Francisco, so I went down there one day and walked in and looked at all those boxes in utter confusion before turning to my friend and asking something really basic like, “when did Robin - as in Batman and - get so cool?” To which he replied “which Robin do you mean?” I really should have run right then. ::laughs:: I was incensed that there could be more than one Robin, so he went over to the posters rack and flipped through all these amazing posters I’d never seen before until he came across that one Art Thibert did of Nightwing. “You mean this guy, right?”
Yeah. I meant that guy. :-)
I left the store that day with that poster, The Dark Knight Returns, A handful of Teen Titans (not in order, X’hal help me!), an old Batman Archive from the fifties, The Killing Joke, The Watchmen, a bunch of Sandmans, and Scott McCloud’s Understanding Comics. And on the way home I realized I could suddenly decipher all these icons on people’s T-shirts. I actually made this one guy spill his coffee by shouting gleefully in his direction “Hey! That’s the Green Lantern symbol!” Dude, if you’re reading this, I totally owe you a cup of coffee. ;-)
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The Fan Man: Do you remember the very first comic book you read?
Devin Grayson: Oh, vividly. I read Watchmen first, and then The Dark Knight Returns, and then a million Teen Titans. Out of order. Which was very…conducive to the creative process.
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The Fan Man: What inspired you to pick up that first comic?
Devin Grayson: Batman: The Animated Series, which was so obviously adult, and multi-dimensional. I wanted to learn more about those characters, and to do that, I realized I’d have to learn about their proper medium.
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The Fan Man: What’s it like working with Nightwing’s artist Patrick Zircher?
Devin Grayson: Patrick’s fantastic. There’s an immediate visual punch to his work, but if you take the time to linger over it, to really read it, there’s so much story telling and depth there, too. His characterization is also amazing, and that’s something I rely on a lot in Nightwing. When I found out we were losing Rick Leonardi to Batgirl (another fantastic book you should be reading if you’re not!), Patrick was the guy I wanted, the first guy who came to mind. That was based on a familiarity with his work and on having done one or two fill-in issues with him in the past, but I didn’t really know him. Right before he accepted Nightwing, he gave me a call to talk about the direction of the book, and we really clicked. We have a similar energy level, and a similar respect for these amazing characters and their pasts. The first thing we ended up really doing together was designing Dick’s new motorcycle, and that was an absolute blast, we were just feeding off of each other’s excitement and energy in the best possible way. And now, god bless him, he’s so involved with the content of the book that he’ll call me on it if he thinks I’m giving Dick short thrift - “he shouldn’t apologize there! What does HE have to be sorry about!” I love it, I love that he cares that deeply about these characters.
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The Fan Man: Are there any creators out there that you would like to work with in the future?
Devin Grayson: I’ve been remarkably lucky so far with artists, but I haven’t yet had a chance to work with Amanda Conner, who is one of my favorite people on the planet and also one of my favorite artists.
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The Fan Man: How about characters? Any characters that you haven’t written that you would like to take a stab at? Maybe a dream comic book project?
Devin Grayson: I always feel like this answer disappoints people, but honestly, no. I came into this industry specifically to work with Batman and the Bat-family of characters and although I’ve greatly enjoyed the other characters I’ve met along the way and look forward to meeting and befriending more, my focus is still pretty narrow. I pretty much either want to be in Gotham (by which I also mean Bludhaven) or in my own universe telling original stories.
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The Fan Man: Any characters that you have written before that you would like to revisit?
Devin Grayson: I’d like to do more with the X-Men, I miss them. And I miss Catwoman, though I’m actually working with her now in a two-issue story I’m doing in Legends Of The Dark Knight.
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The Fan Man: Many folks know that I am one of the biggest Ghost Rider fans around. Any desire to return to that character? Any fond memories of your time with The Hammer Lane miniseries?
Devin Grayson: Okay, that is SO two questions! ::Laughs:: I loved working with Johnny and Match Head. That miniseries was a joy to work on, it felt really different than the other work I was doing at the time and I really had a tremendous amount of fun with it. I’d happily do more with that character, but am currently under an exclusive contract with DC.
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The Fan Man: The Hammer Lane featured Johnny Blaze rather than the previous Ghost Rider, Daniel Ketch. Why was that?
Devin Grayson: I was really interested in giving Ghosty back to the people I felt had kept him vital and alive all this time, and in this case that was actually the biker community even more than the comics community. I honestly didn’t realize that Ghost Rider was a comic at first - I knew him as more of a biker mascot, usually associated with Harleys and big guys on even bigger machines - he was a tattoo and a patch on their jacket, stuff like that. When I realized he came from comics I felt incredibly silly for not having put that together earlier, but I wanted to honor his life outside of the medium, too. None of the bikers I talked to at the time had any idea who Daniel Ketch was, but about half of them knew the name Johnny Blaze. Joe Quesada and my editor on that series, Stuart Moore, had initially told me to use whichever one I preferred, but the minute I suggested that I was strongly leaning towards going with Johnny, they both sort of exhaled at the same time and admitted that they preferred him, too.
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The Fan Man: If The Hammer Lane had been extended or made into an ongoing series, where would you have liked to have taken Johnny Blaze?
Devin Grayson: I was kind of playing with the idea of him learning to embrace and even appreciate Ghost Rider. I absolutely understand how something like that could ruin your life, but at the same time, I mean, come on…that’s too frickin’ cool to walk away from. I wanted him to reclaim his original free spiritedness and to really look at what it might mean to live - even share a body - with the spirit of vengeance. There’s a lot of material there to mine.
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The Fan Man: Looking forward to the upcoming Ghost Rider movie? Is Nicholas Cage your first choice to play Johnny Blaze on the big screen?
Devin Grayson: I’ll be there, yeah. Nicholas Cage wasn’t the first person I would have thought of for Johnny, but he’s an incredibly talented actor and I trust in his ability to channel the character.
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The Fan Man: Have you ever given any thought to trying your hand at another part of the business, maybe as an artist?
Devin Grayson: Oh, god, no! I honestly can’t even draw recognizable stick figures! I considered a job as an editor once a few years back, and I think there are aspects of that I really would have loved, but at the end of the day, I was unwilling to give up the freedom I currently enjoy as a freelancer. At present, I’m exploring some teaching options, and I think that will end up being a very nice addition to my life as a writer.
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The Fan Man: When you aren’t writing, what could we find Devin Grayson doing? Any hobbies?
Devin Grayson: I love gaming, and gardening, and all things Japanese (including collecting classic and contemporary literature, koh, and trying to teach myself Japanese cooking). I’m an avid reader and I love music and theater and movies. I’m once again living in California near friends I’ve known for most of my life and I love spending time with them…we go on camping trips and have SWG LAN parties and RPG once a week. My Dad and Stepmom have a farm up in the Gold Country that they’re planting a vineyard on, so I spend a lot of time up there digging ditches and learning about wine making (which naturally includes quite a bit of wine tasting!). I struggle with maintaining some sort of regular meditation and yoga schedule, and I’m deeply committed to political activism within the gay community, which includes volunteer work ranging from manning the phones at the local GLBT center to giving talks at local schools. And I spend a lot of time speeding around 580 with my windows rolled down, singing along with mixed tapes at the top of my lungs.
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The Fan Man: Any pets?
Devin Grayson: I’m owned by a gorgeous and sublime cat, Nada-san, who is also my muse and familiar. I have two tree frogs and a Japanese fire belly newt who currently live with my young friend Jessica, two African Dwarf frogs who live in my office, and mine is the house that all the neighborhood cats come to visit every day while their people are at work - this despite the fact that I recently adopted a hysterical and enthusiastic young German Shepherd mutt named Bosco, who barks happily and madly wags his tail every time they appear at the back door.
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The Fan Man: Typically, how long do you spend writing an issue of Nightwing?
Devin Grayson: I work off of outlines, and the real work is coming up with those story arcs. Let’s say at least a week to think through a six issue run, in broad strokes, and then a lot of fine-tuning as you go. Once I have that, actually scripting an individual issue usually takes two, three days top. The problem is that I then almost always need a day or two off in-between finishing one project and starting the next.
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The Fan Man: What advice could an established writer like yourself give to aspiring writers trying to break into the business?
Devin Grayson: I’d say go to school. Study writing, learn your craft. You need more than a love of comics to fall back on. Eventually, you’re going to have to think about marketing yourself - you need to become the [blank] guy (like Kevin Smith is the “movie guy” and Rucka is the “novelist guy” and I’m the “not guy”), but that’s totally secondary to having something to offer. Really think about what the job entails and develop those skills. You may have one or two great story ideas, but are you prepared to generate fourteen variations of each of them on the spot and come up with two or three new ones every month? Are you self-disciplined enough to work alone, in front of a computer, completing projects and meeting deadlines and generating new work for yourself month after month? Can you represent yourself as a professional to other professionals and be willing to listen to the needs and wants of your editors even if they go against your initial intentions? Are you able to tell stories visually and succinctly and could you rewrite twenty-two pages in one afternoon to accommodate a sudden moratorium on a character you thought you could use? Are you fast and reliable and easy to work with? Could you rewrite twenty-two pages in one afternoon because an editor isn’t quiet sure what they want but “that’s not it”? Do you genuinely enjoy the creative process, even while starting a story over for the third time because it just isn’t coming together well? These are just a handful of the realities involved with writing comics for mainstream publishers. Really learn how the process of comic creation works and then concentrate on developing the skills you’ll need to excel at the part you’re interested in working with. And don’t limit yourse
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