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Posted on Jan 22, 2004 - 08:40 PM by Admin |
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This March, writers Robert Tinnell and Todd Livingston join forces with legendary artist Neil Vokes to bring Comic Fanatics the graphic novel The Black Forest from Image. Tinnell and Livingston recently found the time to sit down and talk to The Comic Fanatic.Com about The Black Forest, their Hollywood backgrounds, their love for monsters and much more! Join The Fan Man and venture into The Black Forest - if you dare - with writers Robert Tinnell and Todd Livingston!
This March, writers Robert Tinnell and Todd Livingston join forces with legendary artist Neil Vokes to bring Comic Fanatics the graphic novel The Black Forest from Image. Tinnell and Livingston recently found the time to sit down and talk to The Comic Fanatic.Com about The Black Forest, their Hollywood backgrounds, their love for monsters and much more! Join The Fan Man and venture into The Black Forest - if you dare - with writers Robert Tinnell and Todd Livingston!
The Fan Man: Thanks for taking the time to talk to The Comic Fanatic.Com.
Robert Tinnell: Thanks to you, Heath, for being such an early and fervent supporter of the book.
Todd Livingston: It’s our pleasure. We’ve been stalking you for some time now hoping you’d notice us!
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The Fan Man: You guys have a huge project coming up in March from Image. Give us the lowdown on THE BLACK FOREST.
Robert Tinnell: THE BLACK FOREST is a 104 page graphic novel that I usually describe as “All Quiet On The Western Front” meets “House Of Frankenstein.” A horror/adventure set against the backdrop of World War I. And, by the way, of that 104 pages - 100 is story!
Todd Livingston: And by “story,” Bob means “jaw-dropping gorgeous art by Neil Vokes!”
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The Fan Man: Who is the “hero” of THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: There are two heroes. Jack Shannon is a young American flying ace who volunteered for the French - this takes place before the U.S. entered the war. He's teamed up Archie Caldwell - England's greatest stage magician - who also happens to be an expert on the occult.
Todd Livingston: Jack is a real headstrong, action-first-let someone else clean up the mess-type guy. He’s young , reckless and impulsive, so he doesn’t always make the right decisions. He doesn’t understand why he was paired on a covert mission with Archie, who is old and sick and can barely stand up. But it is Archie who is single-minded on the mission and it’s not quite clear why in the beginning.
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The Fan Man: So, who are the “villains” of THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: Not wanting to give away too much, let's just say there are werewolves and nosferatu and Frankenstein's monster. Plus the nefarious Dr. Avery Dye - he likes to meld medicine with black magic.
Todd Livingston: I think we distort the line between heroes and villains in The Black Forest. I am fascinated by the theme of betrayal, so a goal of mine was to play with the reader’s comfort level. Both Jack and Archie feel like each other is wrong for their mission, so you never know whether one of them is just going to act on their own agenda.
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The Fan Man: How do all of these monsters end up in the middle of World War I?
Robert Tinnell: Again, without giving away too much, the Kaiser is looking for any way he can to break through the stalemate in the trenches and win the war. And that includes employing supernatural forces.
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The Fan Man: Why set this tale in World War I?
Robert Tinnell: It's such a wonderful period for storytelling - visually, metaphorically, dramatically. This is a war that started on horseback and ended in tanks. It was truly the final clash of the ancient and the modern. And Europe was remade in the process. And, from what I understand, the Kaiser really was interested in tapping the occult - particularly astrology - in his quest for victory.
Todd Livingston: And because chicks dig biplanes!
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The Fan Man: Whose idea was THE BLACK FOREST initially?
Robert Tinnell: For a couple of years I toyed with the idea of the monster killing guys in the trenches. That and having an ace. I had a book on WWI flying aces as a kid that I re-read many times and I was fascinated by them - guys like Rickenbacker - and of course, the Red Baron. But until Todd and I decided to collaborate I didn't know where to take it. And he, being the weird monster kid he is, suggested werewolves and vampires and making it a whole big monster rally.
Todd Livingston: It just seemed natural. In re-reading the script, I can’t tell what Bob wrote and what I wrote.
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The Fan Man: Who are your favorite characters or monsters in THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: I really like Archie and Jack. They are two guys I'd like to hang out with. The chicks are hot so.... You know, I started to say the Nosferatu, but then I love the portrayal of the Monster so much...I guess I like 'em all!
Todd Livingston: Without a doubt, Ilsa and Isabella, the two female characters. They’re the two most complex characters in the story and for me, they were really fun to write!
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The Fan Man: THE BLACK FOREST has a real Hollywood blockbuster feel to it. Was THE BLACK FOREST originally a movie project?
Robert Tinnell: It was written as a screenplay. But then the WGA threatened strike rolled in and 9-11 happened and - we just dropped the ball. Moved on to other stuff and never even really went to a second draft. And when Neil Vokes heard us talking about it he asked to read it and before he even finished he emailed us and said, "I want to do this." But could it be a movie? Sure. We've got lots of adventures planned for Jack and Archie and the Forest itself. And to be honest, several studios and production companies are talking to us about acquiring the rights.
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The Fan Man: Any chance that we could one day seen THE BLACK FOREST on the big screen?
Todd Livingston: For now, you can certainly put a copy of the book on top of your projection TV!
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The Fan Man: Who are some actors who you feel would be perfect for a movie version of THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: We used to do lists of potential casts. I often do that before writing a script anyway. My dream cast? Jimmy Cagney as Jack, Peter Cushing as Archie, Boris Karloff as the Monster, Lionel Atwilll or Christopher Lee as Dye, Max Shreck as the Nosferatu, and Evelyn Ankers as Ilsa. Oh, and Elena Verdugo as Isabella. But of course, most of those folks are long dead, so...I like this kid from The O.C. as Jack, but I don't know his name. So many great guys could play Archie: Ian Holm, Anthony Hopkins, lots of guys there. For Dye - Chris Lee. Ian McKellen. Or maybe do something interesting, against type - Sean Bean or someone like that. Man, this is tough!
Todd Livingston: Chris Klein is a my choice for Jack. He is a horror/action icon waiting to happen. Jeremy Irons for Dye. When we were writing the screenplay, I imagined Salma Hayek was Isabella and Xenia Seeberg was Ilsa. Then I had to take a break for a glass of ice water before continuing!
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The Fan Man: How would you classify THE BLACK FOREST? Horror, adventure, or a little of both?
Robert Tinnell: Definitely both. It takes a lot of its cues from the old Universal movies, obviously. And they didn't always have a ton of action, focusing instead on atmosphere. The action element was born from the illicit reading of my ill-spent youth - the Marvel black-and-whites like Dracula Lives! and my all-time favorite comic series Tomb Of Dracula. I mean, stuff happened in those books. Seeing Dracula as Vlad Tepes on horseback, hauling ass through Transylvania slicing up Turks - This wasn't a guy creeping around in a tux! And I loved that element. So I think that was a huge reason for the approach.
Todd Livingston: We tried to make The Black Forest as the Universal movie that was never made.
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The Fan Man: Why go the graphic novel route, rather than a miniseries?
Robert Tinnell: We struggled with this but ultimately, after consultation with Image, we felt a big graphic novel, reasonably priced, was the best way to introduce readers to the story.
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The Fan Man: Will THE BLACK FOREST be illustrated in black and white or color?
Robert Tinnell: Had to be black and white. They won't let us do black &white movies any more so... Once you see the book you'll know why we made that decision. It just wouldn't be as powerful in color. No way. Particularly considering the genius of Neil Vokes.
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The Fan Man: How did you guys manage to get legendary artist Neil Vokes to illustrate THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: I have cousins in New Jersey who are in the personal finance industry. Neil has a problem with slots and ponies. We were able to work something out. Seriously, we've been friends for years owing to our love of old horror films and comics. We would meet every year at one con in particular, Fanex. In the bar one night, Neil asked us what we were doing and we told him about a series we were developing called THE WICKED WEST. And Neil, loved it and said, "Hey, how about we do it as a comic?" Which blew our minds as we'd never even considered that anyone would give us a chance to write a comic. Neil actually started sketching out the character on a cocktail napkin. The guy's always drawing. Anyway, we ultimately decided to do THE BLACK FOREST first, but that other project will be coming to you soon, we hope.
Todd Livingston: Neil told us if we didn’t let him draw THE BLACK FOREST, he would strip naked and never dress again. Consider the book our present to mankind!
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The Fan Man: Didn’t Vokes actually go “above and beyond the call of duty” when it came to THE BLACK FOREST, giving Comic Fanatics more bang for their bucks?!
Robert Tinnell: Yes. Originally the book was to be 88 pages - an 80 page story plus 8 pages of extras. Then Neil felt the story was being compromised and asked for 96 pages - hoping to fit the story into around 93. Then Neil felt the story was compromised. So we went to 104 pages - of which 101 are dedicated to the story. He was a man possessed!
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The Fan Man: What do you feel that Vokes’ work brings to THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: Look, Neil is my friend, and you tend to think well of your friends. I've always liked Neil's work. I felt he was this gifted journeyman. But then he did Parliament Of Justice with Mike Oeming. And it was like, Wow. Who the hell is this guy? He found his voice. And with THE BLACK FOREST he's truly emerged. Now, sure, there may be things that won't mean much to the average reader. But for me personally, having co-written the script, knowing the challenges of adapting it -- I am utterly floored by what Neil has accomplished here. As Mike has said, Neil may not be a writer but he's damned sure a storyteller. He improved our script significantly - the way a good film director does. And it doesn't hurt that he understands the material on such an instinctive level. Look, there's a reason I tell folks this has been the most satisfying project of my professional life!
Todd Livingston: I could say it’s because Neil shares our love of classic monsters and heroes and cinema. But in reality, it’s who he IS that made Neil perfect for illustrating this book. From his childhood, to his artistic influences – to his lifetime experiences, Neil’s uniqueness is what made him the only person who could bring this story to life the way it is – the way it should be.
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The Fan Man: Is there anything in THE BLACK FOREST that stands out artistically for you? Personally, I loved Vokes’ Nosferatu!
Robert Tinnell: I think on page 4, the splash page that intros the monster Neil struck gold. I believe that that particularly image will be associated with Neil for years to come. I have so many favorites - there's a wonderful shot of a biplane heading towards an old, bombed out cathedral. But here's the thing I came to realize. What's impressing me the most about Neil is not the gloriously-rendered action scenes or atmospheric landscapes. What is so satisfying to me is that Neil captured the emotion of the script. You will feel for the characters in this book. Particularly in the last ten pages.
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The Fan Man: Is THE BLACK FOREST a one time only deal, or can we expect a sequel one day?
Robert Tinnell: Oh, Jack and Archie are far from finished.
Todd Livingston: I think you may, quite literally, crap your pants when you see what’s next!
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The Fan Man: Is this the first comic book work for both of you?
Robert Tinnell: Pretty much. Neil and I had a piece in the More Fund Comics CBDLF benefit book - a short take on Neil's creator-owned Marc Of The Vampires. And he and I have a horror short story in Chanting Monks' book Zacherley’s Midnite Terrors. But Todd and I plan on keeping Neil busy for the next year at least!
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The Fan Man: How did you guys first meet?
Robert Tinnell: We all met at Fanex. I'd done a film called FRANKENSTEIN AND ME and Todd and Neil were kind enough to pretend they liked it. Neil and I had a lot of mutual friends - in particular Dick Klemensen, who published the Hammer fanzine Little Shoppe Of Horrors. Todd and I met a couple of years later and we just clicked. He sent me a script to read and I liked it so much I wanted to collaborate with him. We do our own things too, but I imagine Todd and I will work together on and off for the rest of our lives. Ditto for Neil.
Todd Livingston: That convention was my first. It was the Fanex Monster Rally and I was really, super excited. I checked into the hotel, dropped my bags in my room and went down to the lounge immediately. It was late on a Thursday night and there weren’t many people there, so I sat alone at a table next to where Bob, Neil and another friend, Bob Sargeant, were sitting. I heard Bob talk about his movie and butted into the conversation. That’s the last thing I actually remember.
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The Fan Man: Give us an idea of how the creative process worked with both of you writing THE BLACK FOREST.
Robert Tinnell: Oddly enough, Todd and I can't write in the same room together. I live on the east coast these days, and he's in LA. So what generally happens is I'll write, say seven pages. I'll email those seven to Todd. He'll re-write them and write the next seven. Then he emails it to me and I do the re-write and then forge ahead and so on. It really makes for a much more polished first draft. Thank God for email. I'm in LA a lot and see Todd a lot and we don't do any writing. We shop for DVDs and comics and drink beer.
Todd Livingston: Yeah, I’m weird like that. Can’t write with anyone around. Which is strange, because I was an improv comedian for years! But I think it’s the combination of the finality of putting things down on paper and my perfectionism that drives me to want to contemplate ideas before deciding on one to go with. So, actually, it all stems from my fear of commitment. Talk to my ex-girlfriends for more info.
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The Fan Man: I mentioned earlier that THE BLACK FOREST has a real Hollywood blockbuster feel to it. It should be no coincidence that both of you have a background in film. Anything we might recognize?
Robert Tinnell: I've had such a crazy career. I mean, when I was really younger I produced the infamous SURF NAZIS MUST DIE - which was a hoot. I did everything from producing the Paula Abdul “STRAIGHT UP” video for David Fincher to getting to work with John Carradine on a picture for my buddy Fred Olen Ray. As a director, my two best known pictures are KIDS OF THE ROUND TABLE with Malcolm McDowell and Michael Ironside and FRANKENSTEIN AND ME with Burt Reynolds, Louise Fletcher, and a young Ryan Gosling. KIDS OF THE ROUND TABLE...did quite well for me, got in the Berlin Film Festival and was ACE nominated. FRANKENSTEIN AND ME played forever on Disney Channel and I won best director at Fantasporto - the big European fantasy/horror film festival. And my last film, BELIEVE was one of two I directed starring Elisha Cuthbert - who's now on the Fox show 24. Lately, I've been concentrating on writing - my four-year-old son is autistic and we are working very hard to try and help him so I've not been so keen on living on location for months at a time. But he's really coming around so I'm again looking for the right directing opportunities. Writing as been filling up my time of late. My screenplay SACRIFICE was optioned by Raw Entertainment and I'm currently developing something with Dark Horse's film division so I'm keeping pretty busy.
Todd Livingston: I moved from live comedy to television doing mainly music and performance related shows like Jennifer Lopez’s Let’s Get Loud concert and the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade for NBC and a bunch of FOX stuff like “America’s Hairiest Cops” and “When Vegetables Attack.” I’ve done my share of acting in film, including Umberto Lenzi’s cult favorite “Hitcher in the Dark” with Josie Bissett. Recently, I have co-written and produced two features. The latest was my directorial debut, the supernatural comedy SO, YOU’VE DOWNLOADED A DEMON featuring Xenia Seeberg from “LEXX.”.
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The Fan Man: Are you guys big Comic Fanatics?
Robert Tinnell: Absolutely - although the last couple of years I find myself drawn more to reading about comics than the books themselves! I really love mags like Comic Book Artist. Reading about the process fascinates me.
Todd Livingston: I could be living in a penthouse in Paris for what I spend on comic books every year!
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The Fan Man: Did you read comics when you were younger? Remember that first comic?
Robert Tinnell: I did indeed. But distribution in those days was so spotty it was hard to follow any one book. I not only remember my first book, I actually kept it! The cover is long gone but hey! It's Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt from Charlton. At the top of the list of what was most influential would be a no brainer: Manhunter from Goodwin and Simonson. Blew my mind.
Todd Livingston: I have been and will always be a superhero comics guy. My first was The Flash. I’ve still got it. Don’t tell THE BLACK FOREST’s publisher Image that I still buy mostly DC stuff. I do stray however. Bendis/Oeming’s Powers, Busiek’s Astro City and The Ultimates are among them.
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The Fan Man: Do you guys find the time to follow any comic books these days?
Robert Tinnell: I followed Hellblazer for years but I've drifted away. I really like Powers - I enjoy Bendis' work. I was following 100 Bullets. I pick up the Lone Wolf And Cub reprints whenever I can. Astro City - love Busiek. I finally picked up Arrowsmith but haven't read it yet. I'm scared to! League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, of course. I actually am enjoying the second series more than the first. My buddy Mark Wheatley's Frankenstein Mobster was a surprise to me - I didn't realize how much I'd enjoy it - somebody's got to take it and run with it as either a movie or animated series - or BOTH! Over the years I've enjoyed Preacher, Sandman, Sin City. I sound like the politically correct guy, don't I? But I can't help it, it's true. The Watchmen, Killing Joke, Ronin, Elektra: Assassin - all that stuff really is that good. I buy the Marvel Essentials whenever I can. I was a big Avengers fan as a kid so I try to get those caught. And of course, the Tomb Of Dracula one they just put out. This is a good time for me to mention I have the original cover art to Tomb Of Dracula #25 (first appearance of Hannibal King) - my most prized possession.
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The Fan Man: As writers, who would you consider to be your influences?
Robert Tinnell: That's easy. Marv Wolfman, Roy Thomas. O'Neill, Goodwin. Stan Lee, of course. From comics we're talking, right? Because there are tons of others. Folks like Stephen King, James Whale, Richard Matheson, Terry Fisher, George Romero, Dario Argento , Mario Bava - this could go on forever.
Todd Livingston: Cary Bates & Kurt Busiek. Because Bates is the first I ever remember recognizing the work of and Busiek surprises and amazes me all the time.
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The Fan Man: Are there any writers you currently admire?
Robert Tinnell: Oh hell yeah. Busiek is like a God to me - I nearly died when I met him. Gaiman. Moore. Miller. Bendis. I really want to see where Mike Oeming is going to end up - his piece The Mice Templars in the More Fund Comic is a fantastic idea, very well executed. Ditto for he and Mark Wheatley's Hammer Of The Gods. Man, do I wish I could adapt that for a screenplay. Wheatley is an all-around inspiration for me - he's really mentored me through this process, been so helpful.
Todd Livingston: I always enjoy Chuck Dixon’s work. Mark Waid, Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis - there’s a ton of people I like. And you know what - this is going to come across really sappy, but screw it. My two writing partners, Bob Tinnell and Nicholas Capetanakis. Their asses raise the bar and challenge me to stretch just to keep up with them. You know Bob, of course – Nicholas co-wrote my two movies and has been a collaborator for many years. I’d have to say both of them are the biggest writing influences for me.
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The Fan Man: Any comic book writers out there whom you feel would be able to take their talent straight to the big screen?
Robert Tinnell: There are big differences between comic scripting and movie scripting. The thing with comics is that you can let stories sprawl. And a lot of times writers needn't be bothered with setting up characters - they have years of that to draw from with established books. So it isn't the easy leap one might think. Movie writing is incredibly demanding. That being said I think the movie industry would be much richer drawing on the talents of many of the writers I've already mentioned. I think Busiek could take over Hollywood if he were so inclined. I think with Bendis it's merely a matter of time.
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The Fan Man: Aside from Neil Vokes, are their any artists out there whom you would like to work with on a project in the future?
Robert Tinnell: I'm pretty damned happy with the Vokester. We have the sort of rapport that doesn't always come along in any medium. But if Neil weren't available? Gene Colan, Neal Adams, Walt Simonson, Dave McKean, Bernie Wrightson, Oeming and Wheatley both, my buddy Kerry Gammill.
Todd Livingston: I want to do a book in which the aforementioned artists do a panel each. I think Jim Lee’s work is pretty grand. Rags Morales stuff is fun. Mike Grell. I used to love his Green Lantern. Hmm...that sounded naughty.
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The Fan Man: Are there any future comic book projects on tap for you guys after THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: Oh, yeah. THE WICKED WEST for sure. An epic horror thing in Japan. Todd and I are searching for the right artist to do our script of THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. I want to script some of Neil's creator-owned character EAGLE. There's just a ton of stuff.
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The Fan Man: If you guys could tackle any comic book character, who would it be?
Robert Tinnell: Dracula from Tomb Of Dracula hands down. I really enjoyed Sandman Mystery Theater and I could get into that. The Defenders was a book I loved as a kid - it would be fun to examine those characters - but I'd probably want to set the stories in the seventies. And of course, Batman.
Todd Livingston: I’d love to rock the JLA. My dream projects are all original characters, though.
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The Fan Man: Any comic book characters you would like to bring to the big screen?
Robert Tinnell: Where to begin? Wish I had a shot at Batman. My dream would be to do the Simonson/Goodwin Manhunter.
Todd Livingston: Hot Stuff, the Devil Kid!
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The Fan Man: When you guys aren’t writing, what do you do in your spare time? Any hobbies?
Robert Tinnell: Fly-fishing, skiing, hiking. Watching horror movies. Hanging out with my family, going to great restaurants. Reading.
Todd Livingston: I’m a collector. Mostly of classic horror movie memorabilia - autographs, artwork, photos, DVDs. I have a ton of CD’s – I am always searching for new music. I’m also a flavor addict, so I love to go to restaurants. I actually have too many hobbies. I need to get rid of some so I can concentrate on work for a change.
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The Fan Man: Any pets?
Robert Tinnell: We have a yellow lab named Giallo - which is Italian for yellow. I love Dario Argento's movies and they are referred to as Giallos so....
Todd Livingston: I have a pet peeve. Its name is Rudeness. I love animals, but don’t actually have any. I want to get 2 bunnies and name one “The Bunny” and the other one “The Other Bunny!”
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The Fan Man: Comic books or otherwise, what else can we expect from you guys in 2004?
Robert Tinnell: Hopefully, an announcement that one of our projects is going to the big screen. Todd and I really want to get THE LIVING AND THE DEAD made - it almost went last year at a budget of $25 million. I honestly don't know what's going to happen next!
Todd Livingston: SO, YOU’VE DOWNLOADED A DEMON will be complete by the time this gets published. I’m in the running to direct a TV series for the BBC. You’ll see more of THE BLACK FOREST. You can also expect us to appear at about ¾ of the comic book and horror conventions.
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The Fan Man: When can we expect to see THE BLACK FOREST?
Robert Tinnell: March 31st.
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The Fan Man: Any parting words?
Robert Tinnell: Just want to say thanks to all the comic readers out there who've been so supportive of a book they've yet to see. We know they could spend their money a lot of places and the fact so many have already sort of pledged themselves to THE BLACK FOREST - well, it's gratifying to say the least.
Todd Livingston: This is not just a job to us. We are having the time of our lives and it’s a great deal of fun to bring the extra things to the table, like the trailer and well, the other surprises we have planned to
support THE BLACK FOREST and the other books.
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The Fan Man: Thanks so much to both of you for taking the time to talk to The Comic Fanatic.Com! I, for one, am really looking forward to THE BLACK FOREST. Best of luck with this project and everything else in 2004!
Robert Tinnell: Right back at you, Heath!
Todd Livingston: The pleasure is all ours, Heath. Can’t wait to hang out at one of the cons!
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Big thanks go out to Robert Tinnell and Todd Livingston for finding the time to do this coast to coast interview. THE BLACK FOREST is scheduled to be released March 31, 2004 from Image. For more information about THE BLACK FOREST, check out The Black Forest.net!
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